Feedback Focus: Ring Selection, Points Spread

[Vutall]

There has been quite a discussion on discord following D2 events. Many players are concerned that there is not enough incentive to select the right ring. I could really use some feedback on everyone's opinion on how to go forward with this.

My suggestion is to increase the bonus points for the correct ring selection after D2, and penalize the incorrect ring selection.

Additionally, it has been brought up that the points spread is far to big already and makes things feel...not worth participating. How may I go forward fixing this?

[Zashi]

If we are worried about spread, I would be in favor of decreasing the points from called raises from 2 to 1 and making Exceptional Successes harder to get for events (+15 or +20 rather than +10)

That way, there is an ability to get a bit extra for the added risk you take, but it doesn't completely overwhelm the points for passing.

I am entirely ok with offering more points for the correct ring. If we need to tweak the pass margin, I think that players are pretty safe to get through at 75 already.

[Kakita Kenji]

Additionally, it has been brought up that the points spread is far to big already and makes things feel...not worth participating. How may I go forward fixing this?

I would like it better if the "Topaz Points" were to count as entrance fees for the final event and the winner is somehow determined in the final events. So those who are now farming points are on the safe side, but still have the risk of not being the winner in the end, on the other hand those who are struggling with bad rolls still have a chance to win the title.

[Vutall]

The topaz points are the entry fee for the tournament. Without 75, you do not gempuku and therefore cannot participate in the duels. (Though, the likelyhood of not earning 75 is extremely low)

The winner of each of the three duels has their points compared to see who is the champion.

I could have it so the tally between the three winners takes into account ring selection more?

[Kakita Kenji]

The problem is: Because the points are already so far apart, it is likely that they will not balance each other out, but the gap between people will widen. Therefore the final event should be evaluated differently.

Maybe you can do something similar with the Topaz points as with the Dojo points from Part 1?

Let's say your Topaz points -75 for the Gempukku and the rest can be converted back to advantages/money?

[Vutall]

There needs to be something to have an overall winner from the three different tournaments.

[Otomo Nobuko]

I think it should be left as is points wise. The points are to ensure we make it to the tournaments in the '2nd half'.

Once there, its single elimination, so the points total won't matter until the last 3 are standing (1 bushi, 1 courtier, 1 shugenja). At that stage, overall points totals are then compared and the highest gets named the champion.

I think if someone skips events on purpose, that can and should count against them if they make it to the final three because that isn't a good example of the ideal samurai.

But otherwise it's fine as is. We are overpowered in general and knew that going in. The method of getting points is clearly defined. And if someone wants to play more for the story they can while others that want to play more for the points can too without either playstyle being penalized - both can reach gempukku and let the dice fall where they may in the tournaments

[Kakita Kenji]

I think it should be left as is points wise. The points are to ensure we make it to the tournaments in the '2nd half'.

Once there, its single elimination, so the points total won't matter until the last 3 are standing (1 bushi, 1 courtier, 1 shugenja). At that stage, overall points totals are then compared and the highest gets named the champion.

I think if someone skips events on purpose, that can and should count against them if they make it to the final three because that isn't a good example of the ideal samurai.

But otherwise it's fine as is. We are overpowered in general and knew that going in. The method of getting points is clearly defined. And if someone wants to play more for the story they can while others that want to play more for the points can too without either playstyle being penalized - both can reach gempukku and let the dice fall where they may in the tournaments

This! Additinally you could give approval/disapproval points from sensei for choosing right tings at the Events before

[Vutall]

that is how the current game is set up. Points only matter to get you to the tournament, and once the tournament is concluded, the three winners have their points looked at to see who overall is the best.

Ring selection in each event grants +5 points if you chose the correct one.

I'm confused as to what you are suggesting then Kenji?

[Kakita Kenji]

Excuse me, maybe it is because english is my 2nd language, but I understood that in the end the champion will be the one who has the most points, no matter how he performs in 1v1.

As it was in one head right now, my suggestion was that we earn "Champion Points" in the final event and the Sensei would give out approval points based on which rings you chose in the 1 phase.

[Utaku Ichiro]

As it is now:

Everyone with 75+ points goes into the duels.

Courtier duel winner, Iaijutsu duel winner, and Shugenja duel winner then emerge.

Among those three the Topaz Points decides the Champion.

[Vutall]

The three tournaments are single elimination tournaments. Once you loose to an opponent, you are knocked out. No Topaz Points are earned or checked during the three tournaments, just how you perform against your opponent.

Once only one player remains in each of the three tournaments, those three players then have their Topaz Points they earned from days 2-6 checked to see who is the Topaz Champion from those three.

[Kokyou]

Bushi might have a slight disad on this format, since the 1v1 matches use combat skills and it is improbable players will raise in that.

But I guess that’s fine. I’ve never seen a non-bushi Topaz Champion so far.

[Otomo Nobuko]

Bushi might have a slight disad on this format, since the 1v1 matches use combat skills and it is improbable players will raise in that.

But I guess that’s fine. I’ve never seen a non-bushi Topaz Champion so far.

I don't think the points earned in the non-bushi events count toward the Topaz point totals. I think they're there to determine the winner of the matches only since there isn't a "you got knocked out" or "you were struck first" mechanic for them to use.

[Kokyou]

Exactly what I am pointing out. Bushi could potentially end up having less points in general since many of the skills they invested in are not favorable to raises due to PvP. Whilst mental and social ones are not competitive and can be raised without fear of a variable TN.

Means the Bushi final could have potentially less points than Shugs or Courtier.

[Kitsuki Asahi]

Even if they do not become Topaz Champion, the other two tournament winners will likely receive glory and may be recommended for significant appointment within their clans. Likewise, scoring high in any of the competitions could draw interest from more prestigious samurai, gaining a mentor, ally or some other potential reward. The Topaz Champion themselves may appoint others to assist him with his duties.

All of this is speculative on my part, but such things are consistent with the setting. Whatever story we hope for our characters can be reached by many paths and I have faith that Vutall will help us find them.

[Kokyou]

That is what I think. Pretty confident it will be fun regardless of the results.

[Vutall]

I think for D3 onward, the bonus for selecting the correct ring will be +7 points. No penalty for selecting the incorrect ring.

This gives a bit more of an emphasis on trying to pick the correct ring, but still allows players to go to a different ring if they wish.

[Iuchi Prashant]

I think it should be left as is points wise. The points are to ensure we make it to the tournaments in the '2nd half'.

Once there, its single elimination, so the points total won't matter until the last 3 are standing (1 bushi, 1 courtier, 1 shugenja). At that stage, overall points totals are then compared and the highest gets named the champion.

I think if someone skips events on purpose, that can and should count against them if they make it to the final three because that isn't a good example of the ideal samurai.

But otherwise it's fine as is. We are overpowered in general and knew that going in. The method of getting points is clearly defined. And if someone wants to play more for the story they can while others that want to play more for the points can too without either playstyle being penalized - both can reach gempukku and let the dice fall where they may in the tournaments

I wholeheartedly agree with Nobuko here. It's likely that points will spread a bit, bit that's not necessarily going to happen - in fact it's less likely than in part 1 where doing well early helped you do well later. And the main goal is to hit 75 points - otherwise doing well is more about building up your name as a good X, or trying to look more like an ideal samurai.

I actually think the points will matter relatively little for the final result. I mean, it IS a race, but between three people, and we are not sure beforehand who these people will be. And for those of us who aren't likely to be the winners of any of the three tournaments (I e. Most non-dedicated courtiers or duelists or Shugenja that may take part in Taryu-Jiaj, which might be a bit more balanced), gaming points is very unlikely to make a difference, so I really don't think we have a problem.

As for more points for choosing the right rings - that would help balanced chars and be worse for super specialist. Whether that is good or not... Well, I don't know. Prash would be benefited, but I don't think it's something necessary either way : )

[Matsu Qiang]

Here’s my suggestions, for what it’s worth:

• Don’t change anything about Day 2. People have already made decisions and rolls based on the posted events, so changing the rules after the fact will make those people mad. Don’t have a surprise penalty or bonus on Day 6 based on Day 2 events either, that’s the same as changing the Day 2 rules.
• Do feel free to change event rules for future days. Yes, you’ve posted those events already, but most people will understand making balance adjustments if you feel they are needed.
• I agree that 5 bonus points for guessing the right ring isn’t working. Go ahead and finish Day 2 using the existing mechanic, but change it for future days. My suggestion: ditch the hint, instead say something like “The judges would prefer you use Water for this event, and consider Fire especially unsuitable. Anyone choosing Water gets a Free Raise to all their Water-related rolls. Anyone choosing Fire must call a raise on every roll for no additional effect.” You might still want to use your Void 5 on every event, I guess; but if your rings are relatively close, you might be tempted to change it up. (Maybe don’t make Void a favored element for many events - high Void is really good already.)
• Swapping the order so that the 1-v-1 events occur after the non-interactive events during the game day does seem a good idea, so you aren’t held up while waiting to see how many void or wounds you have left after the 1-v-1 event.
• I think it’s against the spirit of the match for players to collude in a 1-v-1 event to max out both their points. I suggest you allow it for day 2, but for future days maybe just make 1-v-1 matches “best of 3” instead of “fight until one person wins 3 rolls”.
• Don’t let the vocal opinion of one or two players make you change your vision too much. Sure, if a LOT of players are having problems, make adjustments. But run the game you want to, as much as you can.