Optional Mechanic Poll: Priestly Shugenja

[Vutall]

In Imperial Archives, AEG added the following Optional rule

Optional Rules: Shugenja and Religion
The basic L5R rules for spellcasting are designed to be fairly simple and intuitive, allowing the game to move quickly without bogging down on remembering obscure rules or making detailed calculations. However, the downside of this approach is that it makes spellcasting very “utilitarian,” which goes against the setting’s theme of magic being intimately tied into religion and the spirit world. Accordingly, GMs and players who wish to add more depth to the depiction of shugenja in Rokugan can opt to add some or all of the following optional rules to their game. purity AnD SpEllcAStinG All Rokugani believe that they can become spiritually impure through a variety of ways – most commonly by touching “dirty” substances such as blood and dead flesh. A shugenja who has become impure in this way could well find it difficult to gain the attention of the kami, who will shy away from his aura of spiritual pollution. Casting a spell on an impure person will also be more difficult, for the same reason. On the other hand, a shugenja who rigorously pursues purity at all costs will likely find his spellcasting a little easier, as his spiritual aura is more pleasing to the kami. In game terms, the effects of impurity can be represented by a -2k0 penalty to the shugenja’s spell-casting rolls. If the contamination is particularly egregious, or if it lasts a long time without the shugenja undergoing a ritual of purification, the penalty can be increased to -2k1 or even -2k2. If the character simply refuses to get purified no matter how severe the contamination, the GM could even begin removing spell-slots at the rate of one per week until the character finally seeks proper cleansing. An impure shugenja may also be visited by kansen who offer to fulfill the spells he needs. Of course, casting a spell with the help of kansen will result in gaining a few pips of Shadowlands Taint. If a shugenja attempts to cast a beneficial spell (such as a healing or defensive spell) on an impure person, the GM can likewise apply a penalty – starting at -2k0 and increasing depending on the severity of the impurity – to the spells. Offensive spells should not be penalized, since the spirits will be more than willing to visit harm on someone who violates spiritual purity. A shugenja who goes to inordinate effort to avoid contamination (and especially one who gives up in-game advantages or otherwise deliberately makes things harder for himself in order to avoid unclean things) can be rewarded with a +1k0 or even a +2k0 bonus. A similar reward could be offered to a shugenja who makes a point of never eating animal products (flesh or eggs).

Worldliness and Spellcasting
Since shugenja are supposed to be primarily stewards of the Empire’s religious needs, it is often seen as somewhat inappropriate for them to involve themselves in things like commerce, politics, or courtly romance. Although shugenja as a whole do not isolate themselves from the world to the same degree as monks, nonetheless some shugenja families (such as the Asahina) do cut themselves off from such “worldly” activities, viewing them as spiritually compromising or, at best, as distractions from their true duties. Conversely, some clans (most notably the Scorpion and the Mantis) actively embrace the mixing of magic with worldly activities. GMs who wish to emphasize the impact of a “worldly” life on a shugenja’s spiritual abilities may choose to impose penalties on spell-casting based on the character’s participation in such activities. A shugenja who is roleplayed as obsessing over money or politics, as avidly pursuing romance or becoming besotted with a geisha, can potentially suffer a die-penalty as the GM sees fit. Another option might be to apply a penalty based on the character’s Ranks in the “worldly” skills of Commerce and Temptation (perhaps even Courtier, although this will limit the character’s options in a court-driven campaign). The character’s total for his Spellcasting Rolls is reduced by the total of his Ranks in these Skills, reflecting his distraction from spiritual matters by the affairs of the world.
Conversely, a GM who wishes to reward a PC who rejects worldly distractions can award spellcasting bonuses to characters who actively refrain from such inappropriate activities. A GM could also make it easier for such characters to resist worldly appeals (such as opponents using Temptation or Courtier to influence him), perhaps by awarding a bonus to defensive social rolls based on their Ranks in Meditation or Lore: Theology; this would reflect how a life of piety can render a priest all but untouchable by such social “attacks.”

Spellcasting and Religious Devotion
Shugenja are expected to spend a significant amount of time each day in prayer, spiritual contemplation, and meditation. Even the most “practical” shugenja such as the Kuni, Soshi, and Yoritomo spend a great deal of time with such activities. In an L5R game, it is usually just “assumed” that characters are doing this during the times when they are not engaged with the current adventure, but this can lead to the players more-or-less forgetting that their characters are supposed to be devout priests. Also, a character who is played as being intensely devout and spiritual will still cast spells exactly the same as everyone else, no matter how dedicated he might be. The following suggestions offer ways to off-set these tendencies. A character who fails to be properly dedicated to his spiritual devotions – skipping over religious duties, failing to spend some time each day in prayer or meditation – can suffer die-penalties in a similar manner to a character who is spiritually impure. In this case it is recommended that the penalties start at a mild -1k0 and then slowly escalate over time if the character fails to mend his ways. A character who puts extra effort into religious observance and meditation – and especially a character who forgoes other activities in order to make sure he keeps up with his prayers – can receive a corresponding mild bonus, typically +1k0. The GM can increase this award for characters who are truly dedicated, but it should probably not escalate to adding kept dice. GMs and players may or may not wish to require this sort of religious observance to be actively depicted in roleplay. After all, it can be rather boring for the player of the shugenja to be stuck praying while other characters are off investigating or fighting bandits. Ultimately, it is a judgment call for the entire gaming group as to whether a shugenja’s efforts to be more pious should require a “price” in game-play, and if so, how steep that price should be.

Rituals and Game Effects:
The following section offers options for GMs to add mechanical effects to the various religious rituals which shugenja perform. Although these rituals are not “spells” in the normal game sense, they can still have meaningful effects in a world where the supernatural is real. GMs can use these effects to emphasize the importance of shugenja in all aspects of Rokugani life. To reflect the power of a ritual of cleansing (used after a samurai has encountered something “untouchable” such as dead flesh, blood, etc) the GM can inflict a -1k0 penalty on the samurai’s rolls until a shugenja is consulted and the ritual enacted. If the samurai takes too long (more than a week, say), the penalty can gradually increase, to -2k0, then -2k1, etc. Of course, a samurai who rejects the Celestial Order (such as a Spider) would probably be immune to such penalties. However, for an honorable Rokugani the weight of impurity can eventually intensify to the point where almost any action is rendered nigh impossible. A shugenja who performs a ritual of blessing at a birth, wedding, or funeral might be required to make a Lore: Theology/Void roll at a suitable TN (20 would be typical) to ensure that no evil spirits profane the event. A failed roll might result in a temporary die-penalty to the people involved (reflecting minor misfortune from hostile spirits), or could become a “story hook” by introducing a more serious curse or long-term spiritual imbalance in the lives of the people involved. Samurai who have drawn the hostility of spiritual beings (kami, denizens of the Spirit Realms, etc) can labor under a variety of mechanical penalizing effects such as TN penalties, die penalties, or even Conditional Effects like Fatigue. A shugenja can resolve these problems through rituals of appeasement to the spirits, rolling Lore: Theology/Void at a higher TN (at least 25 for a minor curse from a local kami, higher for more difficult situations) to successfully end the affliction. At the outset of a major undertaking such as a battle or a major court debate, a samurai could undergo a blessing from a shugenja to enhance his connection to one of the Elements. With a suitable Lore: Theology roll using the appropriate Element, the shugenja could bestow a single +1k0 bonus for the samurai to use with a roll involving that Element during the ensuing event. For example, a courtier who was blessed with Fire might use the bonus on a roll involving Intelligence.

[Bayushi Jiro]

I think that this is interesting and flavorful, but although I voted yes, I was somewhat hesitant because I don't like elements that force characters to be away from the action. Much of how this works seems to be predicated on having your character "sit out" during important happenings elsewhere.

Of course, priestly ritual doesn't have to be "sitting out," but it puts added pressure on gms to make those scenes worth having, instead of..."and I wash my hands, clap, pray..." and then three days later. "...and clap, wash my hands, and depart."

[Vutall]

The beauty about a Play by Post is it takes a lot of the work off the GM for that sort of thing. I can track stuff and say "Hey, it's been a while since you actually prayed" and then you need to go make a scene in one of your timeslots.

[Bayushi Jiro]

That makes sense, but it's the quality of those scenes that's troubling to me. A lot of prayer threads are one-posters, because many people find it difficult to engage with someone in that setting. It works if there's a sensation or feeling that can be imparted to the priest in the course of the activity, thus reinforcing its use, but if you've just got a series of one-post threads to show for your spiritual commitment, I'm not sure if the purpose of the rule shift has actually been achieved.

[Togashi Minashingo]

That makes sense, but it's the quality of those scenes that's troubling to me. A lot of prayer threads are one-posters, because many people find it difficult to engage with someone in that setting. It works if there's a sensation or feeling that can be imparted to the priest in the course of the activity, thus reinforcing its use, but if you've just got a series of one-post threads to show for your spiritual commitment, I'm not sure if the purpose of the rule shift has actually been achieved.

This right here sums up a lot of my feelings about it and why i voted no. It is, indeed, a very interesting option in concept, but does it really make the game better, or more interesting?

[Vutall]

I think about it in two different ways.

Mechanically, it adds some interesting things like "Hey, we just fought in a battle, we need to get purified". Often, we have people make threads about that already, so this adds a reason for it.

Fluff wise, it definitely helps build the setting more and makes it immersive.


On the other hand, it feels very much like a chore, and that takes the fun out of the game. A lot of folks who play arn't here to write stories so much as they are to read the story outcomes from their actions, and would rather the heavy lifting for scenes be done by the GMs after they make some rolls in an event.

I personally go back and forth on this one.

[Kaiu Aiichiro]

Mechanically, it adds some interesting things like "Hey, we just fought in a battle, we need to get purified". Often, we have people make threads about that already, so this adds a reason for it.

Since the Rokugani often associate spiritual cleaning with bodily cleaning (why eta deal with the spiritually dirty body fluids), this could be done simply by washing away the blood on your skin.
If that does not solve the problem, you probably are inside Crab lands.

Anyway, I don't like the seemingly agency it gives to spirits? They do not have free will in any sense.

[Doji Sakura]

I don't really understand the benefit of this. It seems like added complexity for no real reason

[Bayushi Jiro]

Since the Rokugani often associate spiritual cleaning with bodily cleaning (why eta deal with the spiritually dirty body fluids), this could be done simply by washing away the blood on your skin.
If that does not solve the problem, you probably are inside Crab lands.

Anyway, I don't like the seemingly agency it gives to spirits? They do not have free will in any sense.

Spirits are described as having personalities. Is agency a stretch? I mean, individually they may not be powerful enough to affect much, but still.

[Kaiu Aiichiro]

Since the Rokugani often associate spiritual cleaning with bodily cleaning (why eta deal with the spiritually dirty body fluids), this could be done simply by washing away the blood on your skin.
If that does not solve the problem, you probably are inside Crab lands.

Anyway, I don't like the seemingly agency it gives to spirits? They do not have free will in any sense.

Spirits are described as having personalities. Is agency a stretch? I mean, individually they may not be powerful enough to affect much, but still.

It is.
Magic is castable because spirits don't have agency. So if you make the same prayer, they are 99% likely to answer in the same way, always. That's how shugenjas can work in-lore.

[Bayushi Jiro]

I always understood the prayer as a propitiation. "Please do this," and the Kami can say "sure" if you succeed at the roll, whereas a failed roll signifies the kami saying "gee, no thanks."

Most likely you go your way and I go mine on this one.

[Mirumoto Masuyo]

Flavorful in theory, but having played a lot of characters in pbp doing extensive crafts or rituals, it gets old making a ton of threads to do the same exact thing all the time.

[Utaku Ichiro]

I like it in fluff not sure I like it in this form of practice.

Though I always did feel that Lore:Theology should play a role somewhere in magic as it seems to often be a 'dump' skill for shugenja despite supposedly being much the opposite. But that's a different topic.

[Vutall]

This poll closes in roughly 16 hours. As of now, we will NOT use the Priestly Shugenja

[Vutall]

Poll closed. We will not be using this rule.