Optional Mechanic Poll: Enhanced Grappling

[Vutall]

In the Book of Earth, AEG added the following optional rule:

GM’s Toolbox: Grappling Options
The L5R 4th Edition core rules present a fairly simple, basic set of rules for Grappling in combat. Although these rules work well enough, they do tend to limit the options of the participants in a Grapple, and their simplicity means they do contain a few “holes” which can be exploited by the unscrupulous. GMs who are willing to add a bit more complexity to their games may wish to explore the following options for increasing the options in Grappling combat. Superior Size/Strength: Wrestling is a form of combat in which greater mass and/or greater muscle power grants considerable advantage. The GM may opt to represent the advantage of superior strength (a higher Strength Rank) or size (Large character versus normal or Small character, or normal character versus Small character) is in the following ways: A stronger grappler may perform a Break as a Free Action instead of a Simple Action. A larger grappler may perform a Throw as a Simple Action. Alternatively (or in addition), a larger grappler may gain a bonus of +1k1 on his rolls to control the Grapple. Stronger/Longer Throws: In the standard rules, a Grappler who elects to Throw his opponent simply leaves the opponent Prone. However, throws can be very painful to the recipient! The GM may elect to allow a Thrown target to suffer normal unarmed damage. If this is felt to be too powerful (after all, why bother with a mere Hit when you can do the same damage and also leave your opponent Prone?) the GM may impose a penalty to the damage, perhaps -1k0.

A strong character can also potentially throw an opponent farther than five feet. A GM who wishes for a more cinematic approach may allow a Grappler to Throw his opponent a maximum number of feet equal to his Strength x5. Stronger Hits: A skilled wrestler can inflict broken bones, joint dislocations, and similar unpleasantness on his enemies. The GM may opt to allow a Grappler with higher Ranks in the Jiujutsu Skill to inflict additional damage on his less-skilled opponent with the Hit option. For example, perhaps each Rank of superiority in Jiujutsu adds +1k0 to the damage roll. Grappling an Armed Foe: L5R does not have any kind of “attack of opportunity” rule, so characters are free to initiate Grapples with enemies who are holding swords or other deadly weapons. In reality, this would be an extremely hazardous option, since only the most skilled of wrestlers could manage to slip past the enemy’s weapon unscathed. To represent this, the GM may rule that if a character initiates a Grapple with an opponent holding a melee weapon, the would-be Grappler must compare his Jiujutsu Skill Rank to the enemy’s appropriate Weapon Skill Rank. If the Jiujutsu Rank is higher, the character may attempt a Grapple without penalty. If the Weapon Skill Rank is higher, the would-be Grappler automatically suffers a hit (with no Raises) from the weapon as the “price” of attempting his Grapple. GMs who wish to add more depth to this may choose to require a Contested Roll between the Grappler’s Jiujutsu / Agility and the defender’s [Weapon Skill] / Reflexes to determine whether the defender gets to inflict damage. Note, however, that this adds another die-roll to the resolution of combat and will thus slow down the action.

[Bayushi Jiro]

I acknowledge that this may be totally unfair, but my experience has been that more complex grapple rules are where fun goes to die. Only vehicle rules are more draining. So I voted no.

[Vutall]

I totally understand that. Plus, it can slow combats down. In a PbP, combats are already rather slow as is.

[Togashi Minashingo]

I don't think these are that complex and, honestly, it gives you a reason to actually use Jujitsu instead of just swinging your sword / axe / etc at everything

[Vutall]

I would like to point out that the FallenAsh community has an interesting history with Grappling.

Essentially, because Jama Sura (big bad bloodspeaker leader) didn't have juijutsu as a skill, the Matsu Daimyo was able to grapple him forever and the rest of the people in the combat thread could hit him at his new TN of like, 10 or something stupidly low.

Grappling in a multi-person combat can be super deadly.

[Kaiu Aiichiro]

I don't think Jiujitsu is underwhelmed, so I don't see why improve it. Jiujitsu has one advantage: You are always wearing your weapon. If you get ambushed inside a teahouse the bushi will have to make do with a wakizashi regardless if they are katana experts or not, but you have your main weapon. If you get ambushed inside a castle? Everyone is unarmed. You are not.
Also grappling is already useful against one enemy, or environment using. I defeated an Oni once by using Jiujitsu to push them into an abyss.

[Doji Sakura]

I acknowledge that this may be totally unfair, but my experience has been that more complex grapple rules are where fun goes to die. Only vehicle rules are more draining. So I voted no.

^This. Jiujutsu is fine as it is

[Togashi Dao]

I like the grappling v an armed opponent section, but not enough to further clog up combat options with more dice.

I'd like a simple, "if you attempt to grapple an armed opponent you take damage = the keep dice of the weapon they are bearing"...or something simple.

[Mirumoto Masuyo]

I would like to point out that the FallenAsh community has an interesting history with Grappling.

Essentially, because Jama Sura (big bad bloodspeaker leader) didn't have juijutsu as a skill, the Matsu Daimyo was able to grapple him forever and the rest of the people in the combat thread could hit him at his new TN of like, 10 or something stupidly low.

Grappling in a multi-person combat can be super deadly.

I remember this! My big reason to say no to adding to it and maybe even tone it down a tad to prevent npc boss characters from being overwhelmed by it.

[Iuchi Prashant]

I like the idea of adding 'some' damage to throws, but further helping high St chars with throws is not something I feel would help the game :p

[Moto Ichiro]

I think there are some things that could be added like bonus to being bigger in controlling a grapple but I understand a lot of people don't like adding complexity

[Vutall]

This poll closes in roughly 16 hours. As of now, we will NOT use the enhanced grappling rules.

[Vutall]

Poll closed. We will not be using this rule.