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Uncle Saibankan, Teach Me! (Expecting/Open)
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:07 pm
by Asako Saburo
As he had been lately, Saburo now had a second text out instead of the Subtlety of the Court. It was a collection of writings by Soshi Saibankan, one of the two founders of the Emerald Magistrates. Relaxed into a seated position that would have looked uncomfortable to almost anyone else, he started to go over the basics of one of the stories, writing notes next to him when he thought he heard the door open to the study room. Glancing up, he checked to see if someone had just arrived.
Re: Uncle Saibankan, Teach Me! (Expecting/Open)
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:11 pm
by Toritaka Sasaiko
Someone has.
Toritaka Sasaiko.
She sees Saburo present and bows. "I trust the evening is treating you well, Asako-san."
Re: Uncle Saibankan, Teach Me! (Expecting/Open)
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:24 pm
by Asako Saburo
He rose and returned the bow before indicating the spot opposite him and returning to his seat. "I did... acceptably in the alternate studies that were selected for me to perform today, so the day has not felt like a wash." He grunted once and set the document down where it could easily be seen. "You did well in the calligraphy test." There'd been some issues with the ancient forms, but her mind was set very much on temporal things, and ... well, his criticisms were usually reserved for himself, not others.
Re: Uncle Saibankan, Teach Me! (Expecting/Open)
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:30 pm
by Toritaka Sasaiko
She nods.
"It was acceptable. I need to work on older forms; most of what is available back home is copies and editions, rather than originals. Time northeast will help with that, I think."
She settles in the indicated seat. "Is that the First Magistrate I see ready for reading?"
Re: Uncle Saibankan, Teach Me! (Expecting/Open)
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:35 pm
by Asako Saburo
He nodded. "This close to the libraries of the Isawa, Ikoma and Otosan Uchi, you will have access to ample copies of older treatises, without question." He admittedly had preferences among those three, but each covered different topics better, and he was deep down a shugenja. He looked at the scroll and nodded. "Some of his fables, yes. They say that he used them in his judgments, so I thought it would be worth considering some of them in order to better understand how a magistrate's mind works. I may not seek presence in the Jade Magistry... but well... what you said about broadening perspectives has been in my mind. If I were to wish only to study the ways of the kami, Isawa lands are a better choice for that sort of specialization. here, all things are possible, and each alternate approach may help."
Re: Uncle Saibankan, Teach Me! (Expecting/Open)
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:44 pm
by Toritaka Sasaiko
Sasaiko nods. No wonder he's been doing so well, she thinks.
"What've you found so far? Any questions? Any favorites?"
She leans forward, reading upside down, clearly eager to discuss this.
Re: Uncle Saibankan, Teach Me! (Expecting/Open)
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:53 am
by Asako Saburo
He shifted around, allowing the scroll to be viewed rightside up for the both of him, moving his own seat as close as propriety allowed. He wasn't one for being too physically close after all. But it was easier if they were both reading the text correctly. Unaware of how many were gauging his performance and how he got here, he started to tap at one of the tails.
"These stories all are about what may have been... eponomous or fictitious, yes? Do we know if his uncle actually lived? I realize that the question misses the point, since the purpose is to illustrate the wisdom that is behind the law, in theory, but it is a matter of curiosity." Certainly, he had no clue if historically old Shokoju was a real thing.
Re: Uncle Saibankan, Teach Me! (Expecting/Open)
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:02 am
by Toritaka Sasaiko
"From a legal standpoint, unless we have testimony from a higher authority that he did not, he did. He has to have done so, or we would have to assume that the magistrate is fabricating his judgments, and such a thought is perilous at best."
The answer comes readily, and Sasaiko seems not to notice the closeness--or to be bothered by it, if she does.
"A more thorough records search would be necessary to make the determination, of course, but I cannot think that the Throne and the Magistracy would allow for so much to be said of it were it not accurate. It would represent a likely unacceptable threat to public order."
Re: Uncle Saibankan, Teach Me! (Expecting/Open)
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:09 am
by Asako Saburo
"Ngh... and even if he did exist, I doubt they would permit the implied insult of even questioning. It is a question I am only permitted because I am a child, and children ask such questions." He was very self aware of the freedoms he would lose in a few months. Once he had performed his gempukku, one was expected to not open carefully tended wounds or search for long forgotten secrets as a general rule. He tapped again at one of the stories and pursed his lips.
"So... tell me, what do you think of the way that Saibankan presented his wisdom? He seemed to rely on a certain 'what if' sort of way, to make clear the purpose behind the the laws that the Emperor codified, a justification of heaven's wisdom. Do you think it is intended because man is often too weak to accept, and thus it helps them to see that heaven is indeed as wise as we are taught and know?"
Re: Uncle Saibankan, Teach Me! (Expecting/Open)
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:27 am
by Toritaka Sasaiko
Sasaiko idly tugs at her ear for a moment as she considers an answer.
"I think that's one part of is, yes. I think another is that it allows for precedent to be more applicable. There is a jurisprudential view that holds with narrowest possible interpretations; under that kind of view, it would be possible to argue that a case of, say, theft between, oh, the Mantis and the Tortoise would not offer an applicable precedent to a case of theft between, say, the Daidoji and Yasuki. Broadening the reasoning underlying the first decision, though, means it can be applied in more circumstances that are substantially similar.
"And it helps people make future judgments, at need, since the First Magistrate had to know he would not be eternally trying cases for us."
Re: Uncle Saibankan, Teach Me! (Expecting/Open)
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:27 am
by Asako Saburo
"It would codify the subject for likely cases before anyone could attempt to bury misdeeds in legal minutiae, yes. Certainly, it would err on the side of a first informal set of guidelines turned into formalized rules before allowing individual cases to get into specifics of what is permitted and what is not." He paused and raised an eyebrow before glancing at her.
"Are there really magistrates that persnickity about details?" Said Fussy McFusserton.
Re: Uncle Saibankan, Teach Me! (Expecting/Open)
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:04 pm
by Toritaka Sasaiko
"There are, and for several reasons. Some are simply...particular about matters. Others, usually newer to the profession, are...cautious, not wanting to shame themselves and their families through overreach."
Again, Sasaiko's passion for the topic will be clear. Her voice is strong and certain, and she looks at Saburo confidently.
"More often, however, matters of court come into play, with litigants arguing based on minutiae. So there is a tension, certainly, between ensuring applicability and making sure that it does not go too far and allow too many applications."
Re: Uncle Saibankan, Teach Me! (Expecting/Open)
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:42 am
by Asako Saburo
"And though you do not mention it, the reality is that there are always those who would manipulate the systems towards their own ends, regardless of the facts or testimony of the case." He frowned, tapping his lips once and gesturing to the fables in front of him. "Do you think perhaps that this somewhat 'folk' method of telling the tale was to ensure that an obvious manipulation through simple detail-focus and particulars might be more obviously apparent?"
That was almost certainly part of Saibankan's intent. Catch other people doing it, and find ways to do it far more carefully to return to his fellows in the Scorpion. He had been Scorpion to the core, after all.
"The study of law, and of proper forms of investigation seems a perilous thing for one to conduct without full training. Anyone with enough time can fire an arrow from a bow, and unless one's allies are in the melee, there is no risk other than missing the mark, but with law..."
Re: Uncle Saibankan, Teach Me! (Expecting/Open)
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:48 am
by Toritaka Sasaiko
"Though the same can be said of the priesthood, as well. If we confer with the kami ineptly, it may be nothing happens--or it may be that they act out in ways we could not anticipate and do not wish to have happen again."
Re: Uncle Saibankan, Teach Me! (Expecting/Open)
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:24 am
by Asako Saburo
"And their perspective is so far afield of humanity's that they may not even properly understand us. I admit that is part of why I took the lessons I did today. I spend most of my time speaking with the kami, not with people. Every once in a while, I feel the lack in my comprehension." It was certainly a deficiency in his mind, even if he never intended to be a courtly master. "You are not wrong, though. there is a similarity in this. A misstep with the kami can have untold consequences at times."
Re: Uncle Saibankan, Teach Me! (Expecting/Open)
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:15 am
by Toritaka Sasaiko
Sasaiko nods.
"And then there are...other things. Priests who think they address kami and...do not."
She shakes her head. "It is unfortunate, but it happens. Just as there are some who think they speak with the force of law, meaning no harm, but still proceeding in error."
Re: Uncle Saibankan, Teach Me! (Expecting/Open)
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:40 am
by Asako Saburo
"And it is precisely for that sort that the Jade Magistrates exist in part." He grunted and nodded in agreement, his eyes scanning the document. So many different fables, wives tales about the wise old man discussing disputes of law. Usually colloquial, smaller examples, ones that would barely demand a magistrate's attention.
"The tales of his family member... are so easy going. I doubt a gokenin would even bother with most of these affairs, but they speak to larger issues."
Re: Uncle Saibankan, Teach Me! (Expecting/Open)
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:53 pm
by Toritaka Sasaiko
"One never knows what will come up, though. And a more, hm, remote one will have more need to be flexible than one closer in to centers of power, certainly.
"One must do for more when away than when at home, after all."
Re: Uncle Saibankan, Teach Me! (Expecting/Open)
Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:59 am
by Asako Saburo
"Which, if you serve within the Emerald or Jade magistry, would almost certainly apply. They are rarely stationed for long periods in one place. Clan magistrates may remain in one location for years at a time, but the Emerald are called upon all over the empire. It would force a certain... fluidity to one's response." He tapped his lips again, something of a nervous habit. "You're going to want to build your memory and your ability to swiftly recall anything as much as possible, are you not?"
Re: Uncle Saibankan, Teach Me! (Expecting/Open)
Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:59 am
by Toritaka Sasaiko
"Among many other things, yes. And I expect that you have a method for that, having seen you work." She gives a small bow. "Your performance in the exercises bespeaks it, and the affinity for Fire you have mentioned, if memory serves."
She gives a small puff of laughter at that. "Excuse the play on words."